February 1977: Life and Boxing Smoker

Gordon and Edith Lodge

2-1-77  

I was at Gordon’s. They (Community Council) were talking about a cement dam on Big Fork.

With this dam, they would have a lot of water, and there would be great trout fishing. Also, they would set up a hydraulic plant and we could have our own electricity. They’ve been talking about this cement dam on Big Fork for years. It takes so much time for them to get anything done. I wish they would do it already. If you take up a suggestion to them, they say ok and then it takes years for them to do anything about it.

A truck came up with a CB and a PA system. "Gordon come out." Gordon told us that it was Indian Joe - a relative, he speaks Gros Ventre.

His grandparents raised him, and they only spoke Gros Ventre to him. He talks Gros Ventre to himself so that he won’t forget it. He was speaking Gros Ventre to me over the PA. I'd like you to come over when we feed him sometime so you can meet him.  

2-5-77  

I was at Gordon and Edith’s. Gordon told me that Edith’s father could sure tell great stories.

He told them real smooth, and he never left out anything. When I tell you stories, I miss things and I skip around, but her dad could tell a story and get everything just the way it happened. He never missed anything. Edith and I would go over to see him, and he would be eating breakfast. He could sure make toast look good. He would break up about 3 pieces of toast in a bowl and would then cover it up with Karo Syrup. It sure looked good. He sold stories to a man named Taylor. I asked Edith what he did for a living. She said that he wrote stories almost all the time, and be sold them. He also hunted coyotes with another man. They couldn’t get as much money as they do today. They still got good money for the time. They had 5 dogs that they used, and they would hunt with horses. The dogs would chase the coyotes, and they would follow on horses.

Edith brought out a plastic bag. She said that soap root was in the bag. It was white and looked like horseradish. She said it was like soap and it suds up. Her mother used to wash her hair with it. They made the soap root by scraping the root and taking off the scrapings.

We knew a guy who had sprained his ankle. My mother gave us some soap root for him. We mixed the soap root with water and made a paste out of it. We put this pelt on his ankle, and we wrapped it up in an ace bandage. The next morning when he woke up, his ankle was fine. I know that it works because I’ve seen it work.

Edith brought a bunch of sinew out to show us. Her mother gave it to her. “It comes from the backbone of an animal. You get it by scraping it off.” It was a dark beige color to brown and was rougher than twine. “It’s used for tying and binding material.” Edith said it’s used very often to tie moccasins. She said that she never used it.

Edith:

Why do they (schools) want the younger people to learn the culture and the language. For the Gros Ventre, it’s gone, and it makes me sad. It makes me mad that they want them to bring it all back now that it’s too late. It’s gone.

We were looking at a recipe sheet that Edith had of traditional Indian delicacies. I saw Rocky Mountain Oysters on it, and I asked Gordon if he's ever had it. Gordon said that they had it a lot when they were kids.

When we would brand the calves, we would take them out and line them up in a row on the fences. You'd take a wire and put coils in the wire. Then we'd put them into the wire loop and roast them over the fire. They were sure good. You’d take them out of the calf by pulling up the sac and then cutting them with the knife. You'd make a cut at the top of the sac and then used the knife to work them up and out of the sac. Then we'd line them up on the fence until we were done branding the calves and had them all out. We never tied down the calf, we'd just hold them down on the ground. They tasted good - it was really muscely meat. Ray made some tapes (stories) about Fred Lodge before he got sick. Ray gave the tapes to Sister Bartholemew, and I think she still has them. You should ask her about them.

Gordon said that he was going to sell all their stuff, and then start making it all over again.

We need the money now. We'll sell it all and make it again, so that we can get the money. He showed me a paper bag on the bench that had a few things that he was going to sell. I'll sell the women's breast plate for $50.00 and the braid ties for $8. The club I can get a lot of money for. (The club had a wood handle with fur; hanging from the end of the handle was a feather and artificial hair). If my hair was long when I made it, I would have used my own. (The bead was stone, ground to an oblong shape and painted red on the end; it was hafted with leather thongs.) I'm thinking about selling the club to the arts and crafts store at the Milk River Shopping Center. They couldn't sell it but would keep it just for display. I have a spear that they would buy for exhibit too. When Glen comes home, I'm going to ask him if we can sell his dancing outfit. He doesn't dance anymore. I started Junior dancing, and he was doing good. Then someone told him that he looked like he was jumping like a frog. That was it, he stopped dancing. We don’t need the outfit now. So, I'm going to sell it and get the money.

At old Hays fairgrounds you can still see the old race-track. The Indians here used to race horses then.

Gordon said that he got some peyote from Jim Snow for Christmas. He brought it out for me to see from his bedroom, and then he asked me if I wanted to take some with him before the pow wow tonight. I told him that I would think about it. He had about 12 peyote in a small plastic cup with a cap on it. The peyote looked like the top of mushrooms that had been dried out. It was very hard and brittle. He said that he would boil the peyote and then we would drink the broth. We can eat the peyote. I asked him what kind of effects I would feel from it. He said that first I would feel tired, and then I would get sick and feel like I wanted to vomit. But I'd be able to control it. Then you'd feel good. “It makes you feel like you can forget all your problems.” I asked him if people would know by looking at me or talking to me that I had taken it, “would I have a shit eating grin.” He laughed and said that I'm always smiling so no one will ever know. He said that you can have a normal conversation. I asked him if I would jump down off the stands onto the dance floor and start tap dancing. He laughed and said that he had smoked 2 big marijuana cigarettes this week, and I'm more afraid of that. He said that the peyote would help his singing. “On the way home you'll be listening to the tires, and you'll hear the Indian songs. You'll be up for about 10 hours. It sure keeps you awake. We'll drink it about 5:00. So come back then. We'll put braid ties on you, too.”

Gordon and I were going to drink peyote tea before we went to the pow wow. Gordon started to prepare it. He started with a pot of boiling water. He added about 4 cups and put 4 peyote in it. When the water turned light greenish brown, Gordon asked Junior to pour it into two coffee cups. He told me to drink it when it was really hot, because it was easier to drink this way. All the kids were in the kitchen, including Dion. While we drank it, Edith braided Gordon’s hair and helped Susie braid mine. Then they wrapped it in leather braid ties. After we finished the broth, we each chewed two of the peyote. It has a mushy texture and was also gritty. The broth tasted like tea. There was no ritual to the drinking or eating of the peyote. It was very matter of fact.

What we do for anthropology.

Gordon:

I used to live in a log house with my grandfather, Fred Lodge, back toward around where JJ Mount lives now. My grandfather raised me. There were three log houses out there and we lived in one of them. Bobby lived in a log house with his grandfather (Ira). It was between our house and where Matthew Doney lives. Me and Bobby used to go to all the shows all the time. There was a place in Hays where they had movies. So, Bobby and I went once and when we got there my quarter fell through the planks on the front porch of the place. When they built the porch, they used green wood and when it dried the planks shrank and there were openings between the planks and that's where my quarter fell through. So, Bobby went in and said that he would try to borrow a quarter for me from someone. He came out after the cartoons. They used to show cartoons before the movie and told me that he couldn’t get any money for me. It was night and it was dark out, but I wasn't afraid to walk home or anything, so I left to walk home. I walked up the road and when I got to about where JJ's turnoff is now, after the brush, I saw a man standing there. He was an older man and when I got close enough to him, I said hello. He didn't say anything to me. Well, I still walked up the road. It's the same road that's there now, but it was before it was paved. I turned around and I saw this man about 30-40 feet behind me. So, I started to get scared. I began trotting home and I turned around and there he was. So, I opened my coat; I was wearing a heavy coat, and I really took off. I only weighed 130 lbs. then and I could really run. When I turned around, he was still the same distance behind me. When I hit Quentin’s place, I was going full speed, and I kept up that way all the way to our house. The Fox’s have lived at the corner even then. My grandfather had three locks on the door. Two were bolt locks above and below the handle and the third was in the lock. When I got to the door I didn't bother to knock, and I didn't stop. I hit the door full speed and knocked it down. I ran right for my grandfather's bed and jumped in with him. My grandfather was a nice and quiet man. He never swore. But when he got out of bed, he saw the door lying on the floor and he really hollered. He asked me what happened, so I told him the story. He told me that if this ever happens again don’t be afraid. If you see a ghost? Spirit? Don’t be afraid. Ask him, " in the name of Jesus, what do you want?" Most of the time he will tell you what he wants. Most people do not do this because they get too scared and they run away; or they don’t say anything.

Spirits can give you a warning that someone is sick or dying or that someone is going to die. George Nicholson lived across from the school in a log house. They went up to the Boys Canyon and camped there in a lodge (tipi) to pick berries and cherries. It was late one night and they were inside. George was completely deaf, but he heard knocking on the door very clear. There was a man (spirit?) at the door, and he told George that he wanted him to follow him. The man wore a long black coat and a big hat. The hat covered his face so George could only see his chin. The man got on a horse and George and Teresa followed him. George had some big horses, the one he was riding was about 16 hands high. George was a big man though and he could sure handle those horses. He followed this man till they got to the old Hays fairgrounds. They rode up to the old coral and the old man started to ride around it with George following behind him. I remember this coral; it was sure big and the logs they used to build it were huge. They would ride around, but when they came to a certain spot around the coral George’s horse would get really jumpy. As big as George was, he had a hard time handling this horse. This would happen each time they went around. Finally, the man disappeared, and George couldn't find him. Teresa never saw him ride away. The next time George and Teresa went around the coral they saw a spot on the ground that was black. He got off his horse and saw that it was a man dying. They were able to get the man to a doctor in time, and he was saved. So, the spirits can give you a warning sometimes.

I lived in a log house with my grandfather behind where JJ Mount’s house is now. There were three log houses there and they were for old people. They had two rooms in them – kitchen and bedroom. They were big places. Ira Talks Different’s place was even bigger.

Gordon:

My grandfather had a lot of land, and he had a lot of money that he made from leasing out his land. But there were two other men that were better off than my grandfather (Fred Lodge) – they had more land for leasing, and even more money. They were Blackcrows and Speaks Thunder. They would get between $8,000 and $12,000 a year from lease money. My grandfather would buy me a whole new wardrobe every year for spring and winter. I had some nice clothes. He sure had money. He was rich, but not as much as those other two.

2-7-77  

I asked Gordon if we could buy his breast plate and braid ties. He said that we could, but he said, “are you sure that it won’t break you?” I said that we were alright for now. He said that the breast plate was $50, and the braid ties were $8. “If you need any money or help you know you can ask us. Or if you need any food, come and ask us. Why don’t you take these canned beans.” He asked me if I like beets. (I told him no). “Do you guys want some peas? A friend of ours gave them to us.”  

Clearly Gordon was not comfortable taking money from us. I know they needed the money and we tried to make him comfortable to take it. After all, we were purchasing something we wanted, and they spent a lot of their time and talent making these things.

Gordon said that the weather in the east was sure bad.

God must be punishing those people. In New York City there are all those rapists and thieves and murderers and God is punishing them now for all of this. The weather is very bad in North Dakota, and I don’t know what the people did in North Dakota, but God is punishing them for something.

There is going to be a depression all over the country the way the prices are and the way the unemployment is. Father Retzel was over last night, and we were talking about it. I told him that all the people will have to pray all over the country, not just in Hays and Lodge Pole.

2-12-77

Edith was visiting us at the trailer. I had fried up some beef heart for Gahanab. Edith said that they would eat beef heart all the time. She said that they would eat liver too.

Vaughn used to go out hunting and he would carry salt with him. When he got a deer, he would dress it out and then he would eat the liver raw with salt on it. We would also eat the kidneys and the fat around it. This is sure good raw, too.

“There is a square dance at the senior citizens center. I think Charles is the caller. He’s the best one around. I like to square dance, but I won’t go anymore. The last two dances I went to, no one asked me to dance.” Venetia kept pestering her to go and take her – and Edith told her they didn’t have the money to get in.

My mother’s maiden name was John. My grandfather, her father, was Gros Ventre Johnny. So, when they took last names, they took the name John.

My sister Mary lives at Rocky Boy and her last name is Denny.

My dad (Fred Gone) died in 1967. Pete (her brother) died in 1971 from a heart attack. I wish you’d known him. He was sure a great guy.

Camilla died in 1969. It was sure tough on everyone. She died in Billings. She had internal injuries, but they never found out who killed her. She didn’t have to go that way. Mom was sure upset about it.

My father was the best singer around here. He sure had a beautiful voice. I wish you could have heard him sing. People didn’t like that at all. Especially the Assiniboine. They were jealous of his singing.

2-13-77 

Edith: Glen came home Wednesday and was here for the tournaments.

After the basketball game, he and a friend of his went to a pizza place in Havre. While they were eating, some guy came in and held the place up. He had a knife and was standing in front of Glen. He saw a stack of empty bottles and was going to hit the guy over the head. I’m glad he didn’t try to do it. What if he would have missed him. So, Glen and his friend ran out of the place. When Glen got to the door he tripped and fell, and the guy went after them. He was holding the knife at his neck. I guess he was afraid that Glen would identify him. He just got up though and kept running.

2-15-77 

Gordon: “I really gave my horses a shock today. I gave them oats. They hadn’t seen oats in a year.”

2-18-77

After Ray and Irma left at 1:00 am on Friday night, Gordon and Edith asked me if I could help them fill out a form. Glen mailed Edith two forms that needed to be filled out for scholarship and grant applications at Montana State University (Bozeman). The two forms were FAF (Financial Aid Form) and BEOG (Basic Educational Opportunity Grant). We worked on it until 4:00am.

Edith said that she was moving up to the Agency on Monday. “I’ll be baby sitting and living at Caroline’s Her baby has to go into the hospital, and I’ll stay with her kids.”

2-19-77 

Frank borrowed two rear tires from Gordon and Edith so that he could drive to the basketball tournament. Gordon said, “Boy, Frank must really like basketball cuz I still haven’t seen my tires” (his car is up on two blocks).

The tv transmitter has gone out before. REA shut it off. It took a long time to get the money for it, only $100.00 last time. Gordon said he helped Betty Jean collect the money.

I didn't have any trouble up here but when I got down to the store, I really started having trouble. The people down there tell you that they don’t use this transmitter, they say they use channel 5 and they get that from the transmitter on Antoinne Butte. But if you ask any of them if they saw "A Man Called Horse," they'll answer, yeah it was good." There's just no way to prove it. They won’t have any problem collecting the money up here. The teachers down at the school get their tv for free, and some people were sure mad about that.

When I go around for donations for the dance committee, I have trouble getting money. And the Indian culture is just dying in Hays. Some people tell me that they didn't go to those things. Some tell me that when they go, they don’t get anything back from it.

2-20-77     

Gordon:

We didn’t have any gas for heat for almost a week. We got our gas from Chinook. I’ve had to wake up at 6:00 and get the wood burning stove going before the kids wake up in the morning.

2-21-77  

When we were walking home last night when we left your house, we got to our turn off, and I heard pebbles fall near me (about 12:30). I couldn’t see who it was, but there were a bunch of little kids stoning us. I screamed at them. ‘What the hell do you think you’re doing – cut the god damn crap!’ They heard how mad I was and ran off. I wish I knew who it was so I could have talked to their parents. Let them know what their little darlings are doing.

2-23-77 

Edith and Ryan were visiting us at our trailer. Edith told Ryan to go home and to put on some clean pants. He said that he didn't have any. She told him to boil water on top of the woodburing stove and to do them in the bathtub and to do some pants for Dory too. She said that their washing machine has been broken since before Christmas and that she's been doing laundry in Harlem at a laundromat. “I haven't been able to get up there to do it for 2 weeks. Our dryer works so I bring the clothes home wet and dry them at the house.” Ryan also complained that he really wanted to take a shower, but he couldn't since they didn't have any gas to make the hot water.

We still don't have any gas. Gordon sent Dory up to the store last week and told him to buy gas. Dory came home without a receipt, and Gordon got mad at him. It makes me mad when he sends these kids out to do things and then yells at them if they don't do it right. He should go out and do it himself if he's going to yell. Anyway, we didn't get our gas. The way it works is that you take your money up to the store and put it in a kitty and then sign up on a sheet. Then when the gas man comes down from Chinook, he gets the money and goes through the list and delivers the gas. I went to the store and our money wasn't there and we didn't get gas. I want to call up to Chinook, but we don't have the money for a call. I wish the gas man came out more often - maybe 3 times a week. I can't work much without gas. The woodburning stove takes too long and we need that to heat our dishwater. We have an electric skillet, a crock pot and an electric pot.

She asked me for some recipes for cold food or food that didn't take much cooking. I gave her recipes for omelets, 3 bean salad, egg salad, deviled eggs - she laughed at the name. She never made any of these foods before. I also told her how to make beans and stew in her crock pot. Susie gave her cheese so that she could make grilled cheese.

Edith yelled at Ryan for not coming home right after school. He hadn’t been home yet. She said that he’s supposed to be cutting wood and has missed his responsibility for two days. She said that they bought a rick from Tom Doney for $15. I asked her if this was a good price. She first complained that half of the wood that he gave them was wet, and then she said that a rick used to cost $7.

2-24-77  

Gordon and Edith came up to the mission at 7:00 and asked me to fill out their 1976 income tax while I was on phone duty. They filled out the short form. They qualified for the earned income credit.

Edith:

I like to look at and read western novels. I could spend hours in Don’s Pharmacy looking at their books. That’s why I don’t go in there very often because I don’t like to have to leave. I really like to read the LaMoore books. They are westerns. I’ve been reading them for many years.

2-25-77  

I asked Gordon if they got their tires back? “No, Frank and Clarence are in Spokane. There’s an art show there and they went to exhibit some of their things.”

We drove Gordon and Edith home from Mike’s surprise party. They still don’t have their rear tires from their car. When we got to their house, Edith asked us if we could drive them to Harlem tomorrow to get her laundry done. It hadn’t been done for two weeks. I told her that I could take her on Monday. She said that she wouldn’t have the money on Monday. I told her to put it away and she laughed. Edith asked me if I could drive her down to ask Ruth. I said I would.

2-26-77  

Joyce drove Gordon and Edith to Harlem. She lost her brakes on the car. She charged them $10 to take them up (going rate). Irma said, ‘that’s not bad.’

2-28-77 

Mary Gone died in the afternoon. Bertha was the only one with her at the time. Caroline had gone to visit Diana Mount in Havre Hospital. She had no sooner gotten there when she got a call.

Ray, Irma, Gordon and Edith drove up to the Agency. They called Davey Gone in Galen, and Mary Denny in Rocky Boy. Mary had 11 children, 53 grandchildren, and 44 great grandchildren, and one great great grandchild.

The family was spread out and had to be called:

Davey Gone – Galen, Mary Denny – Rocky Boy, Fred – Pryor, Vaughn – Spokane, Ramon (Gabby) Pierre, SD, Glen – Bozeman, Joyce’s daughters – Rapid City, SD, Mary’s sister and nieces – Seattle, Raymond – Harlem, Linda (Ray’s wife) – Shelby.

Gordon and Edith came over here after they got back from the Agency. They were trying to get in touch with Vaughn. They finally called the police department in Spokane to ‘run a message.’

I vaguely remember taking this photograph of Gordon after the boxing smoker. He is sitting at his kitchen table, and the room was very dimly lit. Either he or I moved during the long exposure. But I liked this picture of Gordon, so I am including it even though it is double exposed.

Ray and Irma Gone

2-1-77  

We went into Ray and Irma’s living room to watch "A Man Called Horse" on their color tv. Irma, Ray, Lyle and Susie had seen it before. Before it started, they said that they had seen "Little Big Man," and "Soldier Blue" which was about the massacre of women and children.

At the beginning of the film, Sioux snuck up and killed Harris's men and then snuck up on him. Irma kept saying "LOOK OUT”- she said that sneaky stuff made her nervous. Lyle said, “who's side are you on anyway?”

Ray said that this was wrong. The movie started with a scene of an Indian man praying to the sun. He said that it was a grass dance, and it was the wrong kind of song for this prayer and sacred scene. He said that at this moment they should have a brave heart song or some other sacred song but not a grass dance. Both he and Lyle knew the song.

When the Sioux ware dragging Harris after catching him and they were treating him badly, Ray got mad. He said that this wasn't the way a person was treated. They were either killed or they were left alone, but they weren’t tortured like this. “It's this god damn stereotype that makes people think that Indians are savages.” When they put the rope around his neck, Lyle recognized it as a horse

hair rope. When the old woman died because there was no family member to care for her, Ray said that it wasn’t like this. The extended kinship took care of these people. There was always someone to care for the old. Like a friend even. If I died, you would take care of my family. When Harris fell in the burial ground, Lyle said that the burial grounds were never so close to camp. He also said that the camp was in a circle and not scattered around as it was in the movie. When the Shoshone first came to the Sioux camp Ray thought it was the Crow. He said that they didn't get along with the Sioux.

When Harris returned to camp after killing the Shoshones and the whistles were blown, Ray asked us if we heard them. He had explained the whistles to us at a pow wow. The whistles are blown to ask the singers to play the song again if people like the song. During the sun dance Ray said that the Gros Ventre medicine lodge was completely open to the sun. Not like in this movie. A person made a vow for an important reason. The idea was for the person to suffer. The Sundance was held in the spring, summer and fall. In spring and fall not everyone was there, but in the summer, you had to be there. The Gros Ventre didn't pull up the dancer. They danced around the pole till the thongs broke the skin. If it didn't break while dancing, someone would pull it till it broke. While he was dangling, Lyle said that must be his vision.

When he (the other man) asked his brother to marry his sister, Ray said that a woman never could decide who her husband would be. The gifts would never be refused. Also, the gift given would never be chased off and the gift taken. When Shoshone attacked the Sioux camp, Ray said they deserved it since they were in such a low spot. They should have been at a high point with guards all around. At the end, Ray said if this is accurate it was different from us (Gros Ventre) not like it was but made a good story.

When the man held up a belt to lose life as a warrior, Ray said that boy was destined to lose his life as a warrior when he was born. Ray knew a woman living today who had broken through (pointed to his chest) the thongs at the Sundance. He said he remembered it. She is Assiniboine. She has medicine power.

2-11-77 

We were with Ray outside of Mary’s room at the PHS hospital.

I used to be the director of the CAP office (Community Action Programs). It’s been changed to ONAP (Office of the Native American Programs) because CAP was under OEO (Office of Economic Opportunity) and OEO has been abolished. ONAP is under the Indian Desk which is a separate department. Kenny Ryan does a good job. He has a lot of good experience.

BJ, Cranston Hawley and Ray Helgeson are the tribal judges. Cranston is the head judge.

When I was team manager at Urban Rural, I put all of the storm windows and stacked them in a closet so they wouldn’t get broken. It was getting warm out and I didn’t want them to get broken. That night, someone shot into the trailer and the bullet went right through the closet and broke every window. I looked where the bullet went. It missed the propane tank by about a foot. That would have been the end of the trailer. I was sure mad.

2-13-77  

Ray:

We went to the feed and give away for Clementine Horse Capture yesterday morning. It was at 10:30 at the Agency gym. She died about a year ago, and it was put on by her family. There weren’t many people there. Everyone got something. Irma got a beautiful shawl. I got a blanket and Cyndee got a set of towels and wash clothes. She was George Horse Capture’s grandmother. George wasn’t there.

2-18-77  

Susie and I were visiting with Ray and Irma. Ray said he wanted to show us his roach. He went down into a crawl space under the house - about 5' high- with a dirt floor. The access was from inside a closet. He had a lot of things in a chest down there. He said that Irma had a lot of shawls down there. He brought up the roach. It was tied around a wooden pole and was all wrapped in an ace bandage. He said it keeps its shape better this way. He said that he and Irma bought it for Raymond when he was a boy, from a woman at Wolf Point. It was made from porcupine bristles and the hair from the tail of a white tail deer that was dyed different colors - blue, yellow, red, white. He put it on. It fit onto a beaded head piece, with elastic straps to hold it down to the head. It was then tied around the neck so that it wouldn't fall from side to side. Ray said that when I start to dance, he wants me to wear it. He said that Raymond doesn't go to dances much anymore. He wasn't at the midwinter fair dance.  

Ray:

This self-determination bill is a good thing because it allows the Indian people to plan programs and to do things without having to get permission from the commissioner of the BIA or from an agent. It used to be that everything had to be co-signed by the commissioner or agent before it went to Congress. They controlled all our programs this way. Now a bill or program can be proposed directly by the Indian people to the Congress. We don't need any co-signers from the BIA. The problem is that people are afraid to propose or write any programs. The BIA has made the Indian people feel so incompetent for so long that people are afraid to do anything. If the government set me up in a business and provided me with the financial security for my family, I could run a business. I'm doing nothing now, but I could be if I were given the chance. I could pay taxes like everyone else (on the outside) if I had an income. But the BIA has made the Indian so incompetent that they can’t pay taxes like everyone else. They don't make enough.

Ford was bad for the Indians. Carter is better, because he doesn’t know anything about Indian people. This is better because knowing nothing, he can’t have any preconceived ideas or biases or prejudice. He's going to be better than Ford was for the Indian people.

We were looking at one of my slides looking south from Mission Ridge. Ray told us that he and Raymond were working up there once, building locations on high spots for helicopters to land. They were clearing out trees and brush. It was getting late, so they decided to walk home. When they got to the rockslide in the canyon, “I was so tired, I sent Raymond home to get Irma so that she could drive me home.”

Granville and I were putting together the Urban Rural program, and we went all over the State looking for a college or university to be affiliated with. We spoke to all the college presidents, and they all thought that it was a great idea. The concept of bringing the school to the community was very popular, especially on an Indian reservation. We found out that we couldn't affiliate with a state school, because the students couldn't get course credits anywhere over 25 miles from the school. This was part of their residence requirement. So, we had to go with a private college, and it worked out well with the College of Great Falls. There were no Indian teachers in the school, and we thought that the Urban Rural was a good way to get more Indian teachers into the schools. We decided to give a stipend to each of the students at the college because at the time, older people were going and had children. So, we felt that this money would help them with baby sitters. Also with the unemployment situation, this money helped the student put food on the table. We had funding from Urban Rural Title IV, and BEOG, it worked out well when we did this. Later in the program younger, single people started going to the school. Many of them are going to the college only for the money. The stipend was a good idea for the older people, but not so much for the younger people going to school. Still, you have to remember the unemployment situation here. I don't know why the program didn't work. Well, I do know why it didn't work out. It was a good thing. We had plans to expand the program to more than elementary education, but I had to get out of it because of my health. When I went to the first graduation of our Urban Rural students I sat out there in the audience, and I felt really good.  

Then I realized that here were these people graduating from college and I didn't even have a single credit hour, so I decided to go to school. I was doing pretty well in school (College of Great Falls) but then I had a severe heart attack. By the time I got out of the hospital, I was 6 weeks behind. With my thick skull it was too much to catch up. They asked me to stay and help them do some research to start a program at the college.  

The Urban Rural grant went to the school district 50. (Hays Lodge Pole). They are the grantees, but they don’t know anything about Urban Rural. They washed their hands of it. Tall Chief has hired all our graduates who have applied for jobs, but he has stayed out of Urban Rural. He and the school board don’t know anything about the Urban Rural program. The college program was funded by Urban Rural and Title IV. Everything that was purchased with this money will be turned over to school district 50 when the program ends - the trailers, supplies, books, video machines, typewriters, everything.

The Title IV was passed in 1972 ~ this is the Indian Education Act. There are five parts to this act A- E. A is the Johnson O’Malley fund for Indian education in the schools. Part B is for adult education. C is for buildings and facilities. D is for the Native American board, and I think is for staff salaries, and E is an emergency fund that is used for money where certain schools are in special need.

Ray said that he once heard that 80 percent of a people’s culture depends on their language.

If they lose their language, they will also lose their culture. He said that if you go down to the Navajo or Hopi, they have their language, and that was why they still have most of their culture. The Assiniboine are the same way. They have much of their language, and so they also have much of their culture left. The Gros Ventre lost their language, and that is why there is hardly any of the Gros Ventre culture left. One of the reasons that Gros Ventre lost their language was that it was one of the most difficult languages to learn. Many of the children could not learn it once they learned English. It was such a difficult language that my father and mother spoke Assiniboine so that they could converse with the Assiniboine here, and the Assiniboine did not speak so much Gros Ventre. Another reason the Gros Ventre language (and culture) was lost was that when the mission came here, they did not allow the children in the schools to speak Gros Ventre. It may have been that our parents had a lot of foresight about the situation. When they went to school they were punished for speaking Gros Ventre; they didn't want their children to go through this suffering when they went to school, so they didn't teach their children Gros Ventre. They wanted to make it easier for their children, so they didn't teach them Gros Ventre, they only taught their children English. It was tough on these people to be punished for speaking Gros Ventre in school, and they were foresighted in only teaching the children English. They may have realized that the children were going to have to live in the culture of the dominant society. So, they decided not to teach the traditional culture to the children, and they just let the children learn the ways of the dominant society, because they were going to have to live in the dominant society.

The Assiniboine fought the change, and they have not lost as much of their culture. They fought it, and they kept their language and their culture. I look at the ethnic groups in America, and I think that they are much worse off than the Indian. Most ethnic groups have lost their language and their culture. But at least the Indian has been able to keep much of their language and culture. Another thing was that the Catholic Mission settled here in Hays, but there was not a physical building of the Catholic Mission in Lodge Pole. The Mission was strong here in Hays, but there were other missions in Lodge Pole - they had other religions there in Lodge Pole (protestant?). These missionaries in Lodge Pole were not as strong as the Catholic Mission here in Hays.

When the old timers here became Catholics, they accepted it wholeheartedly. They were really strong Catholics and did practice it wholeheartedly. Things are different today from the time back then when the old timers accepted Catholicism so strong. Today people are moving away from the Catholic religion. There have been so many changes in the church, and people begin to wonder about why they had to do things, or not do things in the past, that they can or cannot do today. Like the rule when the sisters and priests first came here that people could not touch them or else something horrible would happen to them. Or having the mass in Latin, for so long, and having it in English today. This change is one of the reason people are moving away from the church. I don’t like to talk about a lot of religious things, because I am confused about a lot of it. I don’t understand why we have to go to church to pray to God if God is everywhere. I pray a lot at home, and I think that should be as good as praying in church if God is everywhere. Also, if all people started from Adam and Eve, how did they have all those children if they had all sons and there was only Eve as the only woman. Did they allow incest then? I am confused about a lot of things in the Old Testament, and I don’t like to talk about it.

The missionaries who came here never asked the people about their religion. They just came here with Catholicism and never bothered to find out what the Indian religion was like. The Indians practiced their religion for many years. God must have been satisfied with the Indian religion. The Indian prayed to the Lord all the time. When a man woke up in the morning, he didn’t even get up before he said his prayers. They didn't have beds; they slept on a buffalo robe on the ground. He would lean over and pick up his pipe and would put tobacco in the pipe and would puff just enough to light it. Then he would offer it up to the Great Spirit and would let the first tobacco be offered up to the Lord. Then he would get up to eat his breakfast which would probably have been pemmican. They ate a lot of pemmican then. He would take a pinch and put it aside before he ate. He would say his prayers and offer the first of his meal to the Great Spirit to share with him. When he finished his prayers with the pipe and over his meal, he walked outside and prayed in the morning toward the rising sun. Toward the east he prayed for the children - facing east, because it was the beginning of the day just as childhood is the beginning of life. They would pray for the health of children, and they would pray for a long life for children. Praying for long life was very important for the Gros Ventre. Long life and old age was very important for the Gros Ventre because these times were very different from today. Today things are only true if you read them in book, but in those days everything was passed down by word of mouth - there wasn't a book. That's why old age was valued and was prayed for.

Old people did the teaching, and many times the grandparents would raise their children. The knowledge they got through life, was then passed down to their children and grandchildren. Then the man would turn toward the south and would pray for the adolescents in the south direction. He would pray that adolescents would grow to adulthood and would have a successful adult life. He would then turn to the north and would pray for the middle aged. He would pray that the adults would be successful and reach old age. Then the man would turn toward the west and would pray for the old aged. Things were different then from what they are today. People of old age were respected and were treated well; they were not put away in homes and forgotten. God must have been satisfied with the Indian religion. The Indian had great respect for religion and mostly had great respect for the nature that the Lord created for our use. We never abused or wasted nature. The Great Spirit was considered so great by the Indian people that they would not pray directly to the Great Spirit. Since he was too great to be prayed to directly, they prayed to him through one of his greatest creations, the sun. They prayed through the sun to the Great Spirit because the sun brings so much life to the earth.

One of the major ways the Gros Ventre prayed to God was by crying. Through crying they would pray, and someone would come to speak to them by coming to the crying person and taking pity - they would want to know why the person was crying.

Ray was so wise. May his memory be a blessing.

There are a lot of old timers around here that don’t know a lot about the traditional culture. They know some, but a lot of these men, like Bob Mount are half white. Their fathers were from Fort Assiniboine. They are highly respected men, and they do know a lot, but not so much about the traditional culture.

In Gros Ventre, there aren’t any swear words. The worst word that you could use was ‘ghost.’ Like if someone was misbehaving, you would say ‘a ghost is going to come and get you.’

I heard the same thing from Beatrice. She said, “there are no cuss words in the Gros Ventre language. You can call somebody a bad name, but you can’t cuss.”

When I was showing Ray and Irma a slide, he said, “that’s larb – they would dry this out in an oven and then when it was dry, they would take and add twist tobacco and mix the two together. This mixture is called knick-knick.”

I was at Montana State College (Bozeman) and I met the man who had my father’s stories. There are stories that he wrote about this place. The man said that I could have copies of it (xeroxed) for $40. I got sick and I never did get all the copies. There are a lot of stories at the back of Flannery’s books, but my father’s are good because he has a lot of stories that are not in Flannery’s books.

We made good friends with people from the east who came here working for Vista. When I was the CAP (Community Action Program) Director, I was the only one who gave the Vista volunteers any kind of instruction about the Indian culture. They would come over to visit all the time.

Bull Lodge was a very powerful man, and he did many good things, but towards the end of his life he started using his powers for bad things. People were afraid of him. He had a dream and learned that he would die in 8 days. So, he started keeping track of the days until he would die. He would put a notch in the lodge pole in the center of the tipi for each day. He told his people that he was going to die, and he gave them instructions on how to bring him back to life. After he carved the eighth notch in the lodge pole, he died. The people put up 5 sweat lodges. He told them to put his body in these 5 sweat lodges on each of 5 days after he died. On the fifth day he would come out of the fifth lodge alive. So, his people put up the sweat lodges. They got as far as putting his body into the fourth lodge and then they started to think about how he was using his power, and they were afraid of him. So, they stopped and he was never put in the fifth sweat lodge. It would have been interesting to see if he would have come out of the fifth sweat lodge if they would have followed his instructions that he gave before he died.

We used to live in a log house behind the Shambo’s when I was a kid. It was actually two log houses, and they were connected by a partition in the center between them. We were eating dinner; Joyce was over eating with us. We had the door opened into this partition to let in some air. After we opened this door, we saw a man (shadow) walk in and sit down on a spring bed (we had one in there with the mattress off). After we saw this dark figure walk in, I was sitting closest to the door, so I picked up a light and walked over to the bed springs. When I looked in, there wasn't anyone in there. We never did know what it was.

My father was writing at his desk, and he heard rocks falling to the ground outside, and he got up and looked outside with a light but he didn’t see anything. Another time he had a thunderstone on his desk and during the night it fell to the floor. He was not afraid of these things. The thunderstone was a sacred thing in the traditional culture. Ray took one out to show me. He said that this is a small one. They are very small, and they are shaped like they have four legs and a head. They are found around here, and they are usually bigger.

Ray went to get his hand game sticks which were in his bedroom closet and brought them out to the kitchen table. While he was opening, he said that there was an interesting story behind these sticks.

Once Ira and Fred were in a trailer and they were camped near the Little Rockies. Both of them were fairly old already. Ira was lighting their stove and it blew up. Ira and Mary both got burned real bad, and many thought they were going to die. So, I made a vow that I would have a hand game if they got better. I went to see Jenny Gray and asked her about how I should go about it. She explained how I should ask George Shields, because he had sticks. So, I went to see George and I brought him a present and I asked him. He said I was doing a good thing, and he would come with his sticks. So, we made plans to have a hand game. There was a cultural workshop course put on about the Gros Ventre at the mission with Regina Flannery, Dick Phort, and George Horse Capture. It was really crowded with a lot of food. We were going to have the hand game at the recreation center, and we kept waiting for George but he never came. So, we didn't have the hand game.

The Gros Ventre had two sets of sticks. Joe Ironman had a set. He lives at Rocky Boy, and Luke Shortman had the other set. I went to see Luke at the agency about the sticks; they had belonged to Old Bull Head who was my great uncle or great grandfather, Gros Ventre Johnny's uncle-grandfather. Luke told me that he buried the hand game sticks with his wife when she died. At the cultural course, Dick Phort told me that he had a set of sticks that once belonged to Old Bull Head, and he wanted to give them to someone here to take care of. He asked me if I knew of anyone, and he told me he would give them to me. I told him that I would take them. Dick told me that the sticks were sold to him by Luke for $20.

Luke had lied to me, but I didn't want to say anything about it to him, because I wanted to know how the sticks were used. Each set of sticks has certain rules, and Luke knew the right rules for these sticks. I knew that if I told him I had the sticks, that he would know that I knew that he sold them and he might not tell me how to use them. So, I went up to see him, and without telling him that I had the sticks, I asked them how the sticks were supposed to be used. Now I have the instructions for the sticks on tape. I got the sticks in the mail from Dick Phort, and I went back to Jenny Gray and asked her about using them. I want to have a hand game because I made a vow to have it. But I wanted to wait, and I prayed to the Lord that if I'm not supposed to use the sticks, he should give me a sign and let me know in my dreams. It's been a few months, and I haven't had a sign, so I guess it will be alright. Jenny said that there was no hurry, so I'll wait a little longer before I have it.

He took the bundle out of the box. He unrolled it, it was wrapped in plastic during the mailing, and he still had it in plastic. There was a cloth bag tie at the top. It was a light blue bag with white flowers. He said that it was very old, and he showed us a tear in the bag to prove its old age. He untied the bag at the top and lifted out a black cloth bundle that was tied with a white hide rope. It was tied around at the bottom and middle of the bundle. He said this black cloth played an important part in the hand game. He untied the rope and unwrapped the black cloth. Inside the cloth were two sets of sticks - there were about 10 in each group. One group had half black and red pigment on it, the other was black and the other half was the color of wood - the sticks looked like they were made of willow. Then there were metal (tin) ornaments tied with leather to the tops of these sticks. There were two ornaments on each stick. These were scoring sticks. There were two other sticks in the bundle - these were the guessing sticks. On either end of the stick were fur handles on either tip that were about 3" long. These fur tips were of mink? There were 3-4 bell ornaments on both tips. Dangling from both tips of the sticks was a feather. It is called the hand game or feather game. There was also a small bundle in the larger one. In this bundle were 4 bone pieces. These were about 3" long and were rectangular in shape and were very smooth. The bones had 3 grooves in one end of the bone. These bones were a dull yellow - beige. One of them was red - worn, one green, one purple and one the color of the natural bone. The bag they were in was made of cloth with a string tie on the top. The bag was small, about 5" long and 3" wide. The bag had blue, red and white stripes.

The game was played in two groups; men usually played women, but it didn't have to be this way. It was just a fun way to play, and it was usually done this way. If the women beat the men, the men would have to prepare the food for the next game. Or if the men beat the women, the women would have to prepare the food. The game was both a religious and fun game. It began with prayer and was a very solemn occasion. After the prayers, the game began. The game was played for fun, a good time. It was not played for gambling. Some groups gambled with a lot of money when they played. But the Assiniboine as far as I know and the Gros Ventre never gambled with money in this game.

After the prayers are said, the men would sit in one row and the women would sit across from them in another row. The person who owned the hand game would take out a bone piece, and put both hands under the black cloth. Then he would put the bones in one hand or the other. One of the teams would guess which hand it was in. If they were right, they would guess first, if not, the other team would guess first. During the guessing, a hand game song was sung and the song lasted as long as the guessing or decision was made. Then one of the team would make their guess. Only one person would do the guessing. Some people were known as good guessers, and some were not so good. If a team really wanted to win, they would let their good guessers make their decision. In this set there are 4 bones, so there are 4 ways to make a guess. While the person is guessing, they hold the guessing stick and the people with the bones and other sticks all move their hands in the same rhythm as the beating of the drum during the hand game song. When the guess was to be made, there were four ways to do it. If the guesser moved the stick from right to left it meant that he thought the bones was in the people’s left hand. If he got all 4 right, their team got 4 scorer sticks. If they got two right, they would get two sticks, and the other two that fooled the guesser would hide their sticks again. There were two other ways to make a guess. There would be two couples, and the guesser would make his guess by these couples. If he held the guesser stick horizontal, he was guessing that the bones were in the couple’s outside hands - looking at the couple - on right, right hand, on left, left hand. Or he could guess that it was in their inside hands, of the couple. He would indicate this guess by holding the stick vertically, in front of the 2 couples. The game was over when one team had the scorer sticks - all of them; the team that had all the sticks was the winner. A lot of people brought food to the game. It was a lot of fun.

I'm pretty sure that I can use Old Bull head's sticks, because Luke sold the sticks and he gave them up then. I'll wait for a sign for a little while longer, and then if I don't see it in a dream, I'll have the hand game that I vowed.

Most of the games were held because of a vow. There's a stick game in Lodge Pole tomorrow night at 5:00. Gerald said that he was going to try to arrange a stick game in Hays for about the third week in March.

When Ray was showing us the hand game sticks, he said that the bells on the sticks were very old. “You don’t see those kind of bells anymore. Before they had these metal bells, they would use a deer hoof, and they would cut off the due claws on the hind legs and tie these inside of the hoof so that it would rattle when the hoof was shaken.”

One of the problems around here is that when people from here go someplace to take care of people's business, they don't apply all their efforts to getting their work done. Like when they go to Washington to take care of business, they haven't been there before, and they want to see all the monuments and buildings. Well, all they should be doing is the tribal business.

When we first went to Washington to start the Urban Rural program, we just did the business that we went there for. We got $121,000 from Urban Rural and then we got $250,000 from Title IV. We found that this was $40,000 less than the other Urban Rural programs were getting. So, we went up to the capitol and saw Mike Mansfield. We told him about our problem, and he got on the phone and took care of it for us. We got the $40,000. That's what these other people should be doing; they should be going to see their representative and take care of their business for their people, not sightseeing.

One of the problems with the school board is that they don't know the law. They don’t know the law that concerns education. In 1979 all the teachers who teach on or adjacent to reservations will need 3 credit hours of Indian studies. There is going to be a problem in that the school board is not doing anything about preparing for this and in 1979 they are going to have a problem getting teachers for the public school. I hope that these people who come in with the 3 credits don't consider themselves experts on Indians. If they have the attitude that there isn't anything more they should learn, there will be a problem.

The council can't get anything done here, because they don't agree on anything. They just argue. There's so much disagreement between 12 people and there are too many people on the community council. Either there are too many people on the council, and they disagree about everything, or they don’t get anything done because they’re just in council for themselves, to get money, land and cattle. The council should be changed. They should get only 4 councilmen, one from each district - Hays, Lodge Pole, Agency, and People's Creek. These councilmen should get a salary. Maybe if they got a salary, they wouldn't be in it so much for themselves. Now they don’t really get a salary from the council, and they have to get something out of it some way. So, they help themselves. With a salary they would be in it to help their people like they are supposed to do. There should also be a manager or chairman of the council.

I asked Ray if he would be interested in my doing a life history with him. He said that he thought it was funny that people from the outside seem to be more interested in the Indian culture than the people here. (He didn't answer yes or no to my question, and I didn't press it!)

I was teaching a course in Indian culture studies at the high school and there was very little interest. I tried to teach a course in the tribal government, but they were just not interested in that. I told Tall Chief that I didn't want a bunch of people who were just interested in getting people who wanted to get out of their math or history classes. I wanted students who were really interested in Indian Studies. I'm certified to teach Indian studies. (Would you like to teach Indian studies in High School). There's just no interest in it over there. Those kids are going to look back someday and they're going to regret that they didn’t take advantage of the older people here. They won't know anything about their culture. Being Indian will be nothing more than degree blood. Even today there is so much intermarriage that the Gros Ventre is disappearing. Today people don't believe anything unless they read it out of a book. The only thing these kids will be able to do is turn to the books about their traditional culture. Someday they'll be interested and the only way they'll know about it is by reading Cooper's and Flannery's books, and by reading the work you’re doing here.

(Which is precisely why I am publishing these blogs with the photographs).

When I was trying to set up an Indian cultural studies program here, I went up to see the tribal chairman who was John Allen at the time. After I told him my ideas about the program, he said why do you want people to go back to living in tipis. He didn't understand anything about what I was trying to do and why I was doing it. I don’t want to live in a tipi - that is unless I can take electricity, a tv and my refrigerator with me in there. I wanted to set up this course because I felt that it was important for the kids to know their past and what they come from. I don't want the kids to live in the past, but I do want them to know their traditions. They can do this and still live in the present dominant society.

The pipes are so sacred to the Gros Ventre people and are so respected, because they were given to the Gros Ventre by the Creator. The Great Spirit gave the Flat Pipe to Earthmaker while he was alone on the raft during the great flood. The pipe was placed in the arms of the Earthmaker. It came right from the Great Spirit. The Flat Pipe was in a bundle because there were many things in the bundle besides the flat pipe. There were the skins and feathers of the loon, beaver, muskrat, and the hell diver. They were all important to the flat pipe. Earthmaker was out on a raft alone during the great flood. He was very lonely and he wanted company, other animals and other humans. So, he cried and prayed, and the Great Spirit answered his prayers and asked him what he was praying for. Earthmaker told the Great Spirit that he was lonely and wanted company. So, the Great Spirit told him how to get land and more company. There were four animals on the raft with him. First Earthmaker sent the beaver down to the bottom of the water to get sand, but the beaver came up drowned. He sent the loon and the hell diver down to the bottom and they also came up drowned. Then he sent the muskrat and the muskrat came up drowned but it had sand between its claws. The Earthmaker took out this sand and put it in the palm of his hand, and he faced eastward and blew on it. He faced in each of the directions and blew on the sand in his palm. Land started to form. First the tops of mountains and then all of the land. That’s how the land and all the animals were created. The feathers and hides in each of the animals on the raft are in the bundle.

Lamebull was a pipe keeper of the flat pipe. There was a flat pipe keeper after Lamebull. When the Boy took the pipe, he was not really a pipe keeper. When there were pipe keepers they would be chosen by previous pipe keepers. Once chosen, the pipe keepers would select one of his wives to become the co-keeper and they would choose one of their children to be the pipe child. They would live in another or other tipis and all of his other wives and children would live in another or other tipis. When hunting was bad in one place or there wasn't enough water, they would decide to move. The pipe keeper would then go into his tipi at night and would dream - and in his dream he would get a sign about what direction they were supposed to move. The crier would go around camp and would tell everyone to tear down camp and pack up. Then early in the morning the co-keeper would go outside the tipi; to the left of the door there was a tripod that the bundle was put on. The bundle would be put in such a way as to be pointing in the direction that the tribe was going to move in. When everyone woke up in the morning, they would look at the pipe keeper’s tipi and they would know the direction they were supposed to move in. The co-keeper took care of the bundle which was large.

The pipe had its own house; the pipe would ride on its own horse and the pipe, the keeper, the co-keeper, and the pipe child would lead the tribe as they moved to their new location.

There was a pipe keeper after Lamebull, but the Boy was not a pipe keeper. He did not know all of the ceremony of the flat pipe. It took 4 days and nights to teach the new pipe keeper the ceremony of opening the pipe bundles. The Boy did not know all of this. The Flat Pipe was orphaned, and The Boy became its caretaker. That was good of him to take care of the pipe when it was orphaned.

After WWII on the first thanksgiving after all the boys came home from the war, The Boy opened up the flat pipe bundle to thank God that the boys came home safely. He didn’t perform the ceremony all of the right way, because he didn't know all of it. When the Boy died, Rufus Warrior took the flat pipe and took it to care for it, but he never went near the pipe. He never did anything with the pipe, and he didn't know the right way to do the ceremony for opening the bundle. Now the flat pipe is at Jeanette Warrior’s house, but no one goes near the flat pipe.

Curly Head was one of the last keepers of the Feather Pipe. Ironman II had the pipe, but he was not a keeper, and I don't know how much he knew. The Boy didn't know either. He was not the pipe child while Lame bull was keeper, although Lame bull must have told him a lot, but he did not tell him everything. Ironman II was a caretaker of the Feather Pipe and may have been a keeper of the pipe. Joe Ironman was the pipe child, but he never did much with the pipe when he grew older. I don't know how much Joe Ironman knew about the pipes.

There aren't many people today who know the ceremony of the pipes. As a matter of fact, most of the people were discouraged from knowing about the pipes. If they were not keepers or co-keepers, they were told that they knew nothing about the pipes, and should not talk about them.

Today the pipes are being desecrated, especially the feather pipe that is in the shack behind Happy Doney’s place. The Gros Ventre have plans to put the pipes in a safe and respectable place. The pipes are not allowed to be under the same roof. One of the biggest problems is that no one wants to move the pipes. No one knows the right way for the pipes to be handled, and most people honor the pipes so much that they don't know how to handle them, and don't want to go near them. Many people are afraid to move them because if you don't know how to handle them, and do, something horrible will happen to you. I've talked to a lot of people who say they won’t move the pipes even if they put up buildings for them. JJ Mount said that he would not move the pipes. “I would not move the pipes, because I don't know enough about it (JJ).”

I would move them if no one else would, because I just consider that it would be taking them out of desecration. I would move them to get them out of desecration and would be willing to take whatever comes - whatever might happen to me. It’s better to take the pipes out of desecration.

When LameBull was a young man, he was being considered as the next flat pipe keeper. The previous keepers were in a tipi and were considering him for the next keeper. They felt that he was a good man, he had wealth, he had good horses, he took good care of children. They felt he was a good man, and they were considering him; his mother walked by the tipi and she heard his name mentioned as the next pipe keeper (flat pipe). She went right to his tipi and warned him. He thought about it and decided that he didn't want to give up all his possessions and wealth. Also, a keeper lived a very restricted life, not able to go to dances and things of that nature. He didn’t want this type of life, so he ran off. The camp was located just west and north of where the mission is, and he ran off into the mountains just above the trailer you live in. The people went to the tipi and they took all of his possessions. They also caught one of his wives, because they figured that he would try to come down after her. They also took all of his horses. Lame Bull had very good buffalo horses. Buffalo horses were used only for the hunt and for battle. These best horses would not be ridden for any other reason. A man would lead his horse to the hunt and battle and would not get on the horse to ride until he was going into the hunt or battle.

So Lame Bull lost everything. He was up in the hills. The tribe had a man who could play the drum and sing and had the power to draw or call someone to come. That night, they started to sing, and this man sang. Lame Bull sat up in the mountain and while he was listening to this singing, he decided that it wouldn’t be so bad to be the flat pipe keeper and it would be an honor, so he came down and became the keeper. The keeper would hold this position for 4 years and if he was good, he would hold it for another four years. If another keeper was chosen after 4 years he too would serve for 4 years. Lame Bull chose one of his wives to be his co-keeper and he chose one of his children to be the pipe child. The Boy was not the pipe child.

You'd think that Andrew Lame Bull would know a lot about the pipes because he was a Lame Bull. But people have asked him about the pipes and he doesn't know anything about them. He couldn't care less about the pipes. (He’s about 87).

Once the Assiniboine stole the flat pipe from the Gros Ventre. There was a battle and one of the Assiniboine warriors stole the pipe and took it back to their camp. Then there was a big snowfall, and there was no wind, so the snow really piled up. The people could not get out to hunt and they were on the verge of starvation. The Assiniboine leaders had a meeting to decide what to do. The man who took the pipe from the Gros Ventre came forward and told what he did. The Assiniboine chief said that they should never steal a sacred thing like this. So that night he dreamt to find out what to do. He was told by a voice that he should return the pipe to the Gros Ventre, and after the pipe was returned, there would be 8 buffalo over a certain hill. So, the chief told the man who took it to go back to the Gros Ventre camp and return the flat pipe. So, the man rode off into the Gros Ventre camp. They saw him coming with the pipe, and they let him enter peacefully, and they respected the man and the Assiniboine for having respect for the pipe to return it to them. When the man returned to the Assiniboine camp they went up to the hill, and there were the 8 buffalo. Then there was a warm wind and the snow melted and they were able to get out and hunt.

After the war, Ironman II decided to open the Feather Pipe bundle to thank the Great Spirit for the boys coming back here after the war. While he was opening the bundle he had his face down, and after he had the bundle open, tears started to fall from his eyes. He said in a very sad voice that the pipe was gone. It had gone back to the Great Spirit. He was talking about one of the pipes, not the feather pipe - the bowl was gone from this pipe - it was the one with the human face on it that was gone.

The Assiniboine gave the grass dance to the Gros Ventre. It was given to them at a place near Chinook. The Gros Ventre gave the Assiniboine a lot of presents and also gave them a lot of food when the Assiniboine taught them the grass dance. They taught them the songs and the ritual and the dancing. There were 4 singers and they were drummers; there were only 4 drummers at the time. They also gave the drum to the Gros Ventre. It was a large drum whereas before they had only the small hand drums. After the Gros Ventre were given the drum and the sticks and the other things that went with the sticks and the grass dance, wherever they would cross water they would carry these things up in the air so they wouldn't get wet and they would cross the water in their clothes. They probably did this because the object and ritual were new, and they were giving these things special treatment. I think that this explains it.

Father Retzel sometimes uses a pipe during his funeral mass. I've told him that this pipe is not like the sacred pipes. It is symbolic of the sacred pipes, and it should be respected for that reason. It's like the crosses in the church. They aren't the same cross that Jesus was crucified on, but they are symbolic of this cross and this is respected for this reason. It is the same with the pipe. I have heard the story about the 3 boys who tried to break into the shack where the feather pipe is kept. Some people say that this is only a coincidence. I don't know - those pipes do have a lot of power, and they are to be respected. What happened was that 3 boys tried to break into the shack behind Happy’s where the Feather Pipe is kept. The next day all three boys were killed in a car accident.

Ray, Joyce and Irma were talking about the "good old days" and the plays that they used to put on when they were young. Ray said that the mission sure used to put on good plays and a lot of people used to come and watch.

These plays were put on at the old school that burned down. Everyone enjoyed the passion play which was a religious play and some of the plays that were put on were not religious. Once when I was very young, I wanted to go out and see a play the mission was putting on at the school. We were living in the log house behind where the Shambos live now. It was the evening, and it was dark out, and there was a lot of snow. I kept asking and asking and finally my father said that I could go. He said that I could go because he didn't think that I would really go out in the dark like that with all the snow on the ground. Well, I put on a big coat and I starting walking. The snow was up to my knees, and I was having a tough time walking. When I was in the mission field across the road from the mission, my brother Pete came after me. He picked me up and brought me back. I really cried.

Ray was talking about a man who really misbehaved. He referred to him as an orangutan! He said, “he was really an orangutan.”

Ray and Irma came in wearing chokers. Ray said that he gives a choker to his good friends. He took it off and put it around my neck. And then he said that Irma had something for Susie, and she put the choker around Susie’s neck. It was a little loose around her neck, so Ray told her to start eating more.

2-26-77  

I went to Ray’s with Mike. He brought them a shelf that he’d built. They asked him to make it for a statue they have of the Madonna and also for a candle.

Irma has a CHR test on Monday on anatomy. She was studying for it. She has to take this for her job.

Two boys came over to visit Lyle. But he wasn’t home. One of them was on leave from the Navy and the other was on leave from the Marines.

Irma: “If someone hears a knock on the door, you don’t answer. It is a bad omen.”

Clarence Cuts the Rope

2-1-77

As I was driving back from Edith’s, I passed Clarence on the road, and he stopped. He asked me if I could do him a favor. He said he wanted to get a big canvass from Home Furnishings and Electronics. The canvass is 8'x4' (they also carry materials for beading, leatherwork, and ceramics). He wanted to paint an old burial scene on a platform, and in a cloud above the platform he wanted to paint a scene of the raising of the flag at Iwo Jima - Clarence said because one of those men was an Indian. I decided to help Clarence. I put gas in the truck and then picked him up over at Frank and Matilda’s. He and Margaret and their kids, Catcher and Sissy were staying at Frank’s for the week. He wanted to use my truck because he wanted the canvass under cover so that it wouldn't get dirty. So, at 4:00 we left Hays for Chinook.

Clarence said that they were staying at Frank and Matilda’s for a couple days. They went home for a little while to feed the horses and cows. While he was home, he realized how much he missed being home, even though they were gone for only a couple days. He said that people here really don't understand me.

My art is my whole life - my art is me. They don't understand that. I talk about my art all the time, and I'm not bragging, but they don’t understand that. They think that I'm bragging. It means almost everything to me, so I talk about it a lot. Painting is not a hobby for me, it's my livelihood. People around here don’t buy my paintings. Part of it is that they can't really afford them. But part of it is that they don’t really get along with me. People avoid me, and I get really fed up with it. People don’t like me here, because I've done well for myself. But I've worked for it. People don’t like it when I talk about the shows I've gone to, but I'm proud of it, and it’s part of my work. I've been to shows in Spokane and Great Falls and all over the country. The show in Spokane is one of the largest shows in the west. It is a closed show. They limit the number of artists and paintings that can be shown. Only 75 artists have been invited, and I was one of them. The show in Great Falls is also one of the largest exhibitions of western art in the country.

You know, Sandy, I really believe that people don't try to do something for themselves here. They get caught up in a way of life here and they don't want to get out of it. There aren't enough jobs here, and maybe I shouldn’t say this, but I think that if someone can't find work here, they should go outside and find a job. People here just keep waiting for things to come to them. Then they are satisfied to take whatever comes their way. Maybe if it were different for me, and I didn’t have the opportunities that I have, I wouldn't be so quick to say it, but I think that if someone doesn't have a job here, they should go out and look for work. People should go to find it instead of waiting for it to come to them, and then be satisfied and take anything. They should leave to find jobs. This may sound harsh, but they have to find work. It's a vicious cycle that my people are caught in. They have to help themselves. People are too content to do what comes to them even if it is just part time.  

I wanted to leave here, because I was fed up with the way people treated me here. I had been through this here for a long time, and I had had it up to here (motioned over his head) with the way people treated me. I know I could make it on the outside and that I would like it on the outside. When I married, Margaret, I was all ready to make a new start and to leave the reservation. But Margaret said that I should give my people a chance - these are my people, and I should give them a chance and should live here with my people. So, we stayed. I think sometimes Margaret understands now how things are here. She can see now what I meant, because she sees how I am treated. She also wanted our kids to grow up near their grandma. She said that it wouldn't be fair to the children to move away and for the children not to even know her. The children should know their people and they should know that they are Indian. So, we decided to stay and live with my people.

I was teaching an art class once, and one of the people in my class asked me why it was that the Indian couldn't farm their land and why they didn't have cattle, and weren't making any money at it. He said that his grandfather came here to this part of the country and homesteaded the land and worked it, and made money from it. The Indian was given land from the government. They didn’t do anything with it. This man was my friend, and he was very tactful about the way he asked me this question. It is very typical of the way white people around here think of the Indian. They don't understand the Indian, and they don't understand the way things were and still are in many ways for the Indian people. I told this man that I was not really Indian, and that the people now are not Indian. We are Indian, but not the way the real Indian was. The real Indians were those people of my parents’ generation, and these people are getting old. I told him that I thought the way he did, and was not really Indian. I told him that my father worked hard all his life. He didn't understand the ways things were for the Indian. My father (Frank) worked hard all his life, he died in 1967, and he should have died 100 years ago. I answered his question about why Indians are not farming and have cattle with all the land given and all the programs by telling him about my father. He was not a lazy man, but with all the work he did, it never got him anywhere. They had land, but it was trust land of the government. They could not make decisions about how they could use the land, and they could not make decisions about selling the land. Also, they could never get a bank loan, so they never had any money to do anything with their land. Even today, anyone here can tell you that an Indian cannot get a loan from a bank. You can't do any farming or have a lot of cattle without money. The Indian today and in the past never had capital or collateral to get loans. He worked hard but got nowhere. I asked him why if he was living next to my people for so many years, why you don’t understand about the Indian.

These are the last Indians, these old timers. I am not an Indian. I think the way you do (to me)- there are no more Indians after them. The last of the Indians are dying off. When these people die, there won’t be much left of the Gros Ventre way. The young people don't really understand this yet.

The people here don't understand what my art is to me. They sometimes ask me how my drawing is - I paint, it's more than drawing. They don't want to pay me for my work. They think that because I'm an Indian I should give it away. But this is my living. I can count on one hand the people on the reservation who have bought my paintings.

My father never had a chance to make it. His father died when he was 13, and he had to quit school and go to work to support his mother and the family. He was only 13 years old, but he had to work like a man. He was expected to work like a man and do a man's work. He worked with the Matador Cattle Company. It was one of the companies with cattle on the reservation. He never had a chance to do good for himself. He was not lazy. He was an honest man and worked hard. His job was a man's job very young.

My mother was taken away from her family when she was young and was put in a boarding school. She was taken away from her parents and sent to the mission boarding school. She didn't understand what was happening to her. These people saw so much change in their lives.

People today must be aware of this change. The Indian must face all of this change, and they must do something about it. People have to be aware of the changes and act, or else the Indian people will never do anything, they'll be caught in a vicious cycle and they will just wait for something to happen to them, instead of doing something to help themselves. The changes have been so fast for the Indians. They must become really aware of it and do something about it and act.

Margaret gets really mad at me when I tell her that I'm going to be home at a certain time and then come home late. I'm so used to going out and talking with people and sometimes I get home late. Margaret says if I hear you tell me that you'll be home at 5:00, that's when I expect you to come home. I was single for a long time before we got married, and I was used to doing things my way. (Conversation started when he wanted to take me to dinner, and I told him that Susie was making me dinner.) He said that it must be the same for everyone. He said that just after he got married, a friend came up to him and asked him how he liked married life. I answered that it was ok. He told me that he tried for a long time to run his household, but his wife and kids really work him down. She runs the family and house. Clarence said, “don't even try. It will just wear you out.”

This may sound harsh, but I think that termination could be good for the people here. It would be hard on a lot of people, but they would have to face it and would have to become self-sufficient. This may sound cruel, but people here have to get out of being so dependent. They just wait for jobs to come to them, and then they are satisfied with whatever they get. With termination, they would be forced to be out on their own. They would learn how to handle money, and how to save and to be on their own and not so dependent. The BIA has made so many people dependent on the government and their programs, and with termination they would be able to get out of this vicious cycle, the people would be able to become self-sufficient. If I was not in my position, I might not be saying this, but I do believe this.

Clarence was talking about Father Retzel.

He hasn't made any changes on the reservation. He came here from Havre, and he tried to do the things that he did with the people in Havre. He is unrealistic and so idealistic. He thinks that he can solve all the problems here. He tries to get involved in arguments between people. A lot of people don't like this. He tries to get people to make up. Some fights have been going on for years and some of the bitterness is very strong and he can't do anything about it. He shouldn't try to do anything about it.

He had a whole plan for Frank and I to paint the church with Indian designs and scenes. He volunteered us to do it, but he never asked us and this made me mad. Frank never said anything to Father about it. He went along with it, because he was too shy to say no. But I was mad about it. The old Indian way was for a bunch of people to go to someone if they wanted him or her to do something for them. Either one person or a few would go to the person's house and say we would like you to help us and to help our family or our people - your people. Could you please help us. The old way, a person was never volunteered to do something without asking them. When people want Gordon to sing or to do something, they ask him to help his people, and he does it but they do not volunteer him without asking him to do it.

Father made some people mad when he took the pews out of the back of the church. People liked to sit in the back of the church. They’re funny that way. My parents always sat back there, and that's where I liked to sit. If I get there late, I'll sit up close, but if I'm there to get a seat in back, that's where I like to sit. When Father first came, he was always asking people to move up to the front, and then he'd wait until everyone moved. He wanted it like it was in Havre. He shouldn't have done that. Many of the old people would have to get up and move. The Indian people are funny that way, but he shouldn't have done that. He really turned people off.

After that art thing when I wouldn't paint the church, things are not the same between us. We don't talk anymore. I had to be honest with him. That’s the way I am. It's like my art, it’s all out in the open for people to judge whether it’s good or bad, I'm that way; I have to be honest. Since that time, he doesn't act the same way to me. The kids here need someone to look up to. I would like to set an example for the kids, so that they will have someone to look up to.

I was in Landusky two summers ago and Margaret was teaching in the school there. I opened up a small art studio in an old building there. On July 4, I opened it to the public and 400 people came into the studio during the summer. It was really good.

Our new home sure means a lot to us. We wanted our home blessed, so we went to the mission. We asked Father Simoneau to bless our home. Father Simoneau just comes in and gets the job done, and that's what we wanted. We just wanted it simple and nice.

On the way back from Chinook Clarence asked if we could stop at the hospital, because he wanted to see his mother. I went in to see Mary, and her daughter, Caroline, was there with her. She said that her mother was much better and that they were going to put a tube down her throat soon and start feeding her solid foods. Then I walked over to Matilda’s room. Clarence was talking to her. She said she was sure lonely there and didn't have anyone to talk to. Clarence said that her roommate only left yesterday for Seattle. She said, “I know but I'm lonely.” He said, “well someone comes up to see you every day.” She said that she was feeling much better. They were going to take her to Havre for one day for one more check up on her eye. Clarence asked her if she had any books to read. She said she had the camp crier, and someone comes to turn on the tv but I don't watch it. She said she was worried about Mary. That poor girl, I sure hate to see her suffer and I hate to see her in pain. She said that they said the rosary with Mary, and she lifted up her head and she was looking up while they said the rosary. “That was good to see her do that. She can't talk to us though. Her family has been here with her. They took the IV off her.” While we were leaving Cyndee, Ruth and Lee Powderface came up to see Mary. Lee is Marilyn’s husband (Ray’s son-in-law).  

Sandy, you know what bothers me more than anything around here, the school. The public school has a lot of problems. There is no discipline there, the kids run the place. They have taken over. Things go on there that are against the law. It's the administration’s fault. They have new teachers there every year, and they don’t' know how to handle the kids. Hazel and I were going to complain but she chickened out. That's the way it is. She felt that since she worked there, she shouldn't say anything, because she worked for them and they would say she was a troublemaker. And she was afraid they'd fire her. I know what goes on there in the school because my sister tells me and my nephew tells me about it. One of the teachers asked one of my nephews to go into his classroom and help keep it under control. I guess he wanted him to talk to the kids or something. The community should know more about what's happening and they should have more to do with the hiring of teachers. Things are really out of control there; the kids are running the school. Part of the problem is the teachers never get out into the community. There is no communication between the teachers and the parents. It’s a horrible situation and I sure hope it changes before my kids get there. Margaret is going back to teaching, and she's going to try to keep a close watch on our kids.

I used to think that I could go anywhere and not have to worry about anything, but this past July I found out differently. I also found out that there's no law here in Hays. My nephew had a fight with a couple guys a week before, and he was carrying around a gun with him all the time. He was helping me build my new home and he would ride with me in the truck. Every time I got in, I would bump my legs on the rifle, and it was always in the way. I was always teasing him about it, and finally one morning when I picked him up, he left the rifle at home. He lives over with his grandfather. We were driving in my pickup and Hazel’s kids and 3 girls were in a truck behind us. All of a sudden a truck with two boys came behind us and started to shoot at us. They shot 6 times at us, and I went right up to Bruce’s and I ran into the house and told him to give me a rifle. But they didn't have any shells. The boys turned around and rode off anyway. I was really mad and I called the police.

They put me in touch with a special police man for this type of situation. He and I were best friends for years in school and in the army. His mother was like mine; I used to call her Aunt, and my mother was the same way to him. He still comes over to see my mother, but he doesn't come to see me. Well, he told me on the phone that if I had a complaint, that I should go see him at the Agency. I was really mad, so I rode down there. I told him what his nephew did and what happened. (One of the boys was the policeman’s nephew). He treated me just like a stranger, Sandy. He said he would tell the FBI agent, and we set up a meeting at the mission. So, the next day Hazel and I went there. The FBI agent asked her what she was doing there, and she said Mike is my son, that's why I'm here. Then the agent said to me," “you listen to me” -- I said no! “you listen to me.” And I told him what kind of relation I had with Mike and how close we were. I told him I wanted him to know all about me, before I started. I said I didn't want to make trouble for them, but I wasn't going to have anyone taking shots at me. I was worried about my wife and kids. The agent said, "don’t worry, they'll only be put on parole." He tipped his hat right there; I know that they wouldn't do anything about it. I told him that if they shot at me again, I would shoot. He said something about if we are going in the opposite direction from me and I shoot at them, then it wouldn’t be self-defense. I told him that if they shot at me again, they would have to come to me and prove it wasn't self-defense. I work hard and I mind my own business. I can go where I want to go. No one is going to tell me I can't live here. I was born here and raised here. This land is part of me, and no one is going to chase me or scare me off. No one is going to make me move. I'm going to protect my family no matter what I have to do. Nothing ever happened to those boys. They're in jail now, but not for this. There are a few feuds in Hays between families and it’s kind of a lawless place. But I will defend my family.

Sandy, I'm glad that you understand this place. You do understand what's going on here and that makes me feel good.

Margaret and I have lived here in Hays for the past three years. Before we moved into our new place, we lived in the old log house that my parents used to live in. Margaret never complained about anything. With me painting and Margaret teaching we make pretty good money. If we sell two paintings a month, we can live comfortably on this money. If we hadn't built the house, we could have been really well-off. We put a lot of our money into the house for materials and labor. I was fed up with that house too, for a while. We had a lot of problems while we were building it. We couldn't get the right-of-way to our land. This man was always drunk, and we sure had trouble with him. He didn't want to give us the right-of-way. To get to our land, and to get materials into the house, we had to drive all over the place. He finally gave us the right-of-way to get in. We used our money from the paintings to build the house - everything went into our home. We love our home, it means a lot to us. We just had our first Thanksgiving and Christmas in our new home, and that really meant a lot. We enjoy being there. We don't get out much, but we just love being with our kids and we sure do have the best times with them. We take them sledding in those discs by the house on a hill. Margaret stands at the bottom to catch them. They sure love to sled. We don’t want to go out much, because we enjoy being alone with the kids. I've had a few paintings in galleries, but I don't usually sell my paintings like that. They usually sell on consignment, and I won’t work that way. I sell my paintings to homes, most of my business comes from other people seeing my paintings in someone’s home and then they get in touch with me. This is what it’s all about for me.

Selling to people’s homes. Some people have ordered a painting and tell me what they want in the painting. These are the hardest for me to do. I have about eight orders now. I put these off. I'd rather paint what I feel like painting. They are easier for me to do, and I enjoy painting them more. I sold a painting yesterday and I went to the person’s home. They said that they would come to me, but I thought it was right for me to go to their home.

When the treaty committee was planning the museum, I thought it was a great idea. I'm sorry that the plans fell through, for a per capita payment of $45. It just doesn't make sense. There is no more Indian culture left, it is sad. They should have had the museum, especially for the kids. All they know is that they are Indian, but they don’t know what an Indian is. They know they are Indian, but nothing more. I'm trying to help my people. My work is also to help the Indian people. I'm making the Indian known through my work. They don't understand it. The people don’t understand me and what I do. They don't understand what I'm trying to do with my work. They don't understand what I'm trying to do for them.

I want to stay here and help my people. I don't have to stay here. I know I can make it on the outside, in the city. I've made it in the city before. I lived in Malta. I went there with only canvass and my paints, and I made it there. I liked it there and the people in Malta. They liked me living there. I did well. Margaret and I can do well on the outside, with me painting and her teaching. We did well in Landusky, and we did well when we lived in the Bear Paws. I want to help my people here.

Granville and Mabel Hawley

2-7-77  

The names of the tribes meant “the real people.” The word Assiniboine is a Piegan word. The Assiniboine did not use this name. They called themselves Nakoda which means “the real people.”

The whites did not understand the Sioux. They thought they were very poor because they give everything away. They share everything. The whites are just the opposite. They keep everything and they save so that they can have cattle and homesteads. The whites just didn’t understand the different values. All you had to say to an Assiniboine was that you really liked something that he had, and he would give it to you.

2-9-77  

All the Gros Ventre here have Assiniboine blood. They don’t want to admit it. You shouldn’t talk to them about it, because they won’t want to talk to you about it and it will only make them mad. It's not a subject they like to talk about. This is why the Gros Ventre have Assiniboine blood. The Gros Ventre once attacked and raided a Blackfeet and Piegan camp. The Piegan chief was in the camp. He was a big chief in the Piegan tribe. Most of the Algonquin tribes made a big thing of their chief. They were highly respected and honored; not like the Assiniboine. The Assiniboine had a leader, but if the people stopped following him, they replaced him and that was the end of the person as a leader. It was not a big thing. When the Gros Ventre attacked the camp and killed a lot of Blackfeet and Piegans and they killed the Piegan chief.

The Gros Ventre were out hunting in the fall and they were building up their supply of winter buffalo meat for the winter. It was a big hunt, and all the able body men were out so that they could build up a good supply of meat for the winter. The Piegan were keeping a close watch on the Gros Ventre since they killed their chief, and when they saw all the Gros Ventre men out on the hunt, the Piegans attacked the Gros Ventre camp and killed all the Gros Ventre women and children.

The Gros Ventre men were without woman now, and they went to the Assiniboine camp which is where Poplar is now. Poplar and Havre (now) were big time gathering places for the Assiniboine. When the Gros Ventre got to Poplar, there were many more Assiniboine women than men. They came to the camp after a smallpox epidemic.  Many of the Assiniboine men died in this epidemic. The Assiniboine men would try to cure themselves from smallpox by going into a sweat lodge and sweating and then jumping into the freezing water of the river. This is not the way to treat smallpox, and most of the men died from this treatment. The women did not use this treatment as often as the men. Since women did not do this as much, more Assiniboine men died than women, and there were more Assiniboine women in the camp. The Gros Ventre men asked if they could live in the Assiniboine camp. The Assiniboine answered that they could live in the camp on two conditions. First the Gros Ventre men must marry the Assiniboine women who didn’t have men, and second the Gros Ventre men must remain with the Assiniboine group. The Gros Ventre agreed to these terms, and they married with the Assiniboine.

When the spring came and the snow began to melt, the Gros Ventre left with their Assiniboine wives. The Gros Ventre didn't stay with the Assiniboine camp like they had promised to do, but the Assiniboine did not hold a grudge against the Gros Ventre for this, even today. The Gros Ventre moved south from their camp near Poplar. All of these events took place shortly after the 1870's and 1880's. And this is how I know that all the Gros Ventre’s have Assiniboine blood, because they had Assiniboine wives. These events took place around that time. My great grandfather told me about it.

My grandfather, Charles Hawley, came out to Montana, in 1868. He was white and he had an Assiniboine wife. My grandfather came out here with a Crasco, Mary Mount’s great grandfather. They came out with a friend from California. They bought 3000 head of horses and brought them out to Montana to sell. So, with the 3000 horses they moved west to Montana. They had some wild experiences on this trip to Montana. My grandfather told me that they were camped one night. A man rode into camp. He was packing two guns and a rifle. My grandfather and the other two men where kinda scared of this guy. He was a Mormon and was out converting people. My grandfather told me that if this is how they converted people, he wasn’t interested.

After my grandfather sold the horses, he started a trading post in Glascow. It was one of the first stores in Glascow. He sold the store after a while because of the buffalo hunters. Their hands were covered with blood, and they were a wild bunch. My grandfather wanted to get away from them. The buffalo hunters or killers had killed the buffalo all over the plains and with all this meat lying out all over the plains, the wolf population increased. No one could even try to raise cattle with all these wolves, so the buffalo hunters turned their attention to killing wolves. My grandfather then left Glascow.

He moved south to Hawley Flat and started a trading post there. A lot was worked there, because the river got too shallow after that, and that's about how far the boats could go up. So, he handled a lot of things that were unloaded there. That was on the Muscle Shell River southeast from here, (Hays). About the time he started his trading post on Hawley Flat, the government started to give annuities to the Assiniboine. They would bring up flour and bacon on the boats and help them out of the sacks into heaps, and then they would use the sacks to cover their head like handkerchiefs, bandana's. While they dumped all this stuff, my grandfather would follow behind them and collect what they dumped out. The Indians never used bacon and flour because they didn't know what to do with it. My grandfather would take it up and he used to sell it back to whites who came through the area and up the river. There were a lot of people moving up and down the river, a lot of miners and trappers. When the government annuities were given out, a few Gros Ventre asked if they could cut into the line. The whites couldn't tell them apart, so it didn't matter, and the Gros Ventre had Assiniboine wives so they were entitled to these. At first there were a few Gros Ventre, then more and more, and then all the Gros Ventre got in line for the annuities after a few days. It really was OK since they had Assiniboine wives.

The children of these Gros Ventre men and Assiniboine really were Gros Ventre. The head of the family was the man, and the children took the tribe of their father. They were raised as Gros Ventre and they are Gros Ventre. They have Assiniboine blood from their mothers, but they were raised as Gros Ventre and are Gros Ventre. That’s the way it worked. They are enrolled today as Gros Ventre, and that’s really right. If a person was taken captive and were brought up in that tribe, they became a member of that tribe. Their blood might be different, but that didn't matter. It's the way they were brought up. So, these people should be enrolled as Gros Ventre. Their blood is Gros Ventre and Assiniboine. But they are Gros Ventre because they were raised that way.

The Gros Ventre are very proud of their tribe, and they don’t want to admit that they have Assiniboine blood. It is their own reality that is important, so they are Gros Ventre. There is proof that they do have Assiniboine blood, though, and this is evidence in the archives at Helena. The Gros Ventre group I've been talking about started the Gros Ventre in Hays.

The first people who accepted Catholicism here accepted it wholeheartedly. They were really strong believers in Catholicism and accepted everything right away. These old people were the first to accept Catholicism and they accepted it all wholeheartedly. I'll tell you why they accepted Catholicism so fast. Both Catholicism and the Indian religion were monotheistic. This made Catholicism very easy to accept. And the people were more religious than the Catholic missionaries who came here. Religion was everything and prayer was woven into everything. Since the people here were more religious than the missionaries this also made Catholicism easy to accept.

Mabel Hawley

I went to church and to mass every week. My parents were strict with us. I thought that I had to be perfect, and that anything I did wrong was a sin. I really did try to be perfect, and this made me feel bad; this bothered me. I talked to Father Robinson about it, and he made me feel better.

We were also told that it was a mortal sin to go into another church. It was a sin even to go into the building (she pointed over to the Christian Missionary Alliance). I think this was wrong, if I want to go into another church I'll go. My parents were really strict with us going to church. It was tough on us kids. I don’t force my kids to go to church. I don’t want them to go through what I went through. If they want to go to church, then they go, but if they don’t want to go, I don’t force them.

Granville asked me how I wanted to get paid this time. I told him that I didn't care. He said that he'd pay me either by the month or every two weeks, but he didn’t want to pay me one lump sum like last time, because it doesn’t 't look good in the books. It's better for tax purposes if I pay you this way also.

Urban Rural went for a couple of years without a team manager. The community board wanted some hot shot from the outside, but a lot of people wanted the team manager to be a local person. They finally hired a team manager from the community. Ray did a good job. After a while I came in to help him. Then he got sick and had to quit, and I took over as team manager.

I have a creative mind and it's no good for me to be doing this work. When I was in 5th grade, I used to whittle all the time. I used to make horses by whittling. I had a deal with the teacher. She would let me go ahead and whittle as long as I cleaned up my mess when I was done. This was good for me because it encouraged me to be creative, but the problem was that I never became disciplined enough to do paperwork. I never learned to do it. When I was in high school, I took a chemistry course and I scored in the top 10 in the whole country, but I received an F in my high school chemistry class because I never handed in my assignments. I hate to do all of this Urban Rural paperwork, but I do it because it has to be done. I'd like to work it out so that I had a secretary to do all of this work, and I could just do all the creative work.

Pat Bear

2-19-77 

Pat came to the trailer to visit. She was talking about boarding schools. She read an article about Flandreau. It said that these people send their kids away to school because their families are too large and they want to get rid of their kids. Pat was really offended. She said that her family was large but that wasn’t the reason. She had to go away. There was no other high school.

Me and this Crow girl from the Crow Reservation are the youngest representatives at Flandreau. She has an Indian name, “one who knows and sings a variety of songs.” It was a Crow name and this is what it translated to in English. I thought that was really great. She asked me if I had an Indian name, and I told her I didn’t. I told her that we weren’t brought up much with the Indian way.

Pat is the secretary at Urban Rural.

In the summer I hardly ever see Charlie. He has a ranch that he works on all summer. The ranch is toward Dodson and it’s between the highway and Milk River. I told Charlie that I would do about anything, but I'd never move to his farm. The mosquitoes are terrible. When he works up there, he stays with his mother who lives at the Agency. He works so hard up there.

I’m ¼ Southern Cheyenne and ¾ Gros Ventre. My mother’s people were from southern Cheyenne in Oklahoma. My father was a full blood Gros Ventre. John Shortman. Charlie is Assiniboine and white. When we had Baby, Charlie wanted to enroll him as an Assiniboine, but I had more Gros Ventre than Charlie had Assiniboine, so we enrolled Baby as Gros Ventre.

2-20-77

Pat came over to visit us at the trailer after the day care co-op rummage sale.

We had a rummage sale and also a bake sale. Everyone had to make some kind of baked good to sell. We bought all of the baked goods ourselves before the place was even open at 1:00. There were all kinds of cakes, pies, and cookies. I made two big plates of fudge, and I sold the whole thing for $1.50. Monica made two big boxes of fry bread. She sold them for 25 cents a piece. I bought $3.00 worth. It was still hot - she made them this morning. I only counted the $20, $10, and $5, and there was $135. There was $70 to begin with, but there was a big stack of $1s and a big bowl full of change. I think we made about $100. It seems that no matter what we do for the co-op, the same people are always there to help. There are 20 people in the day care co-op, but it's the same ones who are always there. The staff people weren’t even there (3 women). (Do these women need to be certified?) They have either certification of some kind or a license.

(I'm having some trouble at Urban Rural, because my students aren't working as hard as they should be, and they're having trouble with the course).

There was a big meeting a couple months ago at Urban Rural. This meeting turned into a personal thing against Granville and Joe Kirkaldie. But a lot of things came out at this meeting. One of the students came there with her father and her two brothers. This wasn't right. Charlie sits on the board, but I don’t use his weight around. I do it on my own. So, she started talking in front of everyone at this meeting that she wasn't going to do any more work than she needed to, just to get by. She said that she gets $75 a week, and if she works harder, it doesn't get her any more money. She still gets the same. So, I'm just going to work hard enough to get by. She is really smart. Some of these people are going to school just for the money; they have no intention of ever using their training for anything. They get $75 a week from Title IV and then they get BEOG which pays for their tuition and books. The meeting was about the CTT's (College Teacher Trainees) wanting three days leave for school with pay. Some of them really come in and argue about missed days, because they don’t get all their money.

I am the Ft. Belknap Representative at Flandreau. Myself and a woman from Crow are the youngest representatives. We try to spend as much time with our kids as we can. We eat all our meals with them. They gave me a letter that they would like published in the Camp Crier. This job keeps me busy because I have two months to get all my work done. I go there every two months.

(Susie: do you get paid for this work?)

Yes, I got $260 for mileage this past time. There are 21 students from Ft. Belknap. When I was going there it was between 60-80 kids. I graduated from Flandreau. When I went there, we had to stay for nine months, we weren't allowed to come home the way they get bused home for vacations now. They would come for us in buses and it would take 3 days to get there. We would spend the nights in a motel. We weren't allowed to leave our rooms. I guess they were afraid we'd run away.

(I asked her about other boarding schools. She named about 5-6 others and said that there were Ft. Belknap kids that go to all of these schools. How do you decide what school you will go to?)

Well, the kids hear about the different schools from older brothers and sisters and from friends, and they decide from other people’s experiences. I wouldn’t let my younger sisters go to a boarding school. The schools with the highest standards are the public schools off the reservation. I went to Havre for a little while. They have high standards. My sister went to Havre public school and she transferred to the mission school. She was so far ahead of her grade that they skipped her up a grade. The Harlem public school also has high standards, higher than the mission and Hays. For a while, kids went to boarding schools for high school because they didn't have a choice. The Hays high school is only two years old. The mission had burned down.  There wasn't a high school here. The government just passed a sum of money to build a new school in Hays.

JJ and Bernice Mount

2-28-77  

JJ and Bernice came up to the rectory to bring rummage for the Catholic Indian Congress sale. They stayed and talked at the rectory with Father Retzel, Mike and me. JJ said that at one time the mission was self-supporting.

They had a large ranch with cows and two bands of sheep. Behind the root cellar about 50 yards north there was a large building, about 80 ft. long, that was a granary. There was also a bakery and laundry behind the old mission. The mission hired about 5 people from the community, and they made enough money to pay these people and to also run the mission. I went to boarding school here, and we used to work half a day at the different jobs around the mission and then we went to school in the afternoon. (Did you like this boarding school and working half a day?) Well, a lot of people didn't like it, but I thought it was a good idea. I liked it. You learned a lot of practical things and then in the afternoon when you got to the classroom, you were glad to be there. I thought you learned a lot this way. Brother Fox had a big garden and used to grow a lot of things here for the mission. I used to milk the cows here. I also went to the Ft. Belknap boarding school up at the Agency. It was the only government school that was self-supporting. I also milked cows up there. We used to ride the cows out to grazing after we milked them. Some of those cows could sure buck. It helped to buck the monotony. The mission declined – ranch, garden, mill – because of mismanagement. The Society of Jesus has about 3,000 acres of land just south of the reservation.

The Gros Ventre are about the only ones who lost their language. The other tribes fought against the white regimentation, but the Gros Ventre didn’t fight it. You couldn’t speak it in school. There are only a few people who can speak Gros Ventre today – Luke Shortman, Beatrice, Jim, Paul Stiffarm, John Stiffarm, Vernie Perry, John Capture. I was talking to John Capture about having him teach Gros Ventre, but he said it never did me any good to speak Gros Ventre. I won’t. Where has it ever made me any money. His parents raised him and never spoke English to him. When he got to school, he didn’t speak anything but Gros Ventre.

For the Catholic Indian Congress, we’re going to try to get some tipis. People are donating money, bead work and blankets and other gifts to be given away to guests. (Do you know how to put up a tipi). I really don’t know. I know you start with three (tripod) and work your way around. There are an odd number of poles, but I don’t know how many. There is also a flap that can be opened to let out smoke from a fire. There is a pouch on either side of the flap and poles fit into these pockets. The poles can be crossed and uncrossed to open and close the flaps. (Do the Cuts the Rope boys know how to set up a tipi). No. They’re modern Indians. The tipis today are made from canvass covers.

When people start talking Gros Ventre their arms anatomically start going (sign language). The reason for it is that a lot of the words are the same and without the hand motions it could get confusing.

My parents and the people in their generation used to get together after mass and have prayer meetings. They would all meet at someone’s house and say prayers. If we could get back only half of this, it would be good.

Hays Boxing Club and Smoker

2-9-77  

Nedra and Mary Mount came up to the trailer at the mission this afternoon. Mary said that they were asking people to sponsor trophies for the boxing tournament put on by the Hays Boxing Club. Jay Willie runs the club and Nedra’s brother is one of the boxers. They said that they were up to the public school, and they got a few people at the school to sponsor a trophy. Some of them paid $10 to sponsor a trophy. I said that I would, and I paid $8 for a trophy. Nedra made me out a receipt and told me that my name and Susie's name would be engraved on the trophy. The boxing tournament will be in the new mission gym on February 19th.

2-12-77  

John came up to the rectory to make a telephone call and I asked him about the boxing tournament at the mission on February 19th. He said that he and Buzzy have been helping Jay Willie with organizing the smoker. There should be 18 fights. The fight at the Agency took a long time, because they were really unorganized. It took almost 6 hours for 18 fights. In Great Falls we can have 18 fights and it only takes 4 hours. Jay Willie will have fewer of the youngsters fighting next Saturday. They take a lot of time. I will be fighting a guy from Billings and Buzzy will be fighting a guy from Malta.

2-19-77 Mission Gym 

The Boxing Smoker put on by the Hays Boxing Club (Jay Willie, Buzzy, John and Doug Morin) was held in the new mission gym. The announcer was Joe Brown. This was a trophy fight. The trophies were donated by businesses around the reservation and by people on the reservation. It was $2.25 for ringside seats, $1.75 for general admission, and $1.00 for students and children. There were about 300-400 people there. The boxing club also had a concession, and they were selling hot dogs, hamburgers and coffee and pop.

There were several boxing clubs participating in the smoker, Malta, Billings, Havre, Lodge Pole and Hays. The referees and judges came from these different clubs. Two men from Malta took turns refereeing the fights. The first fight was an exhibition - two young boys, 50 lbs. They each received a trophy. When Sam, Elliot and John were fighting Ida and her kids were really screaming. If a boy was cut, the crowd would be very sympathetic and gave him a strong applause. There were two men drunk in the stands who kept yelling "come on Indian" whenever an Indian was fighting a white from Havre, Malta or Billings. People laughed at first about it. When Richard Boushie was fighting, Itty had her face buried in her lap, she couldn’t watch.

The feature bout was John vs Mike Jones (Billings)- it was close for two rounds, and then at the start of the third round, John hit him in the face and knocked him to his knees. After an 8 count, John hit him again and he really went down hard. It ended as a TKO. Mike looked really hurt. All the managers jumped into the ring and John bent down to help them revive him.

Trophies were given to the best fighter and the best sportsman - two boys from Billings were given these trophies - the last to Mike Jones. When the fights were over, Ida asked me to take a picture of her boys with their trophies. Sam, Elliot, John.